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(List D refers to Richard’s List D Vineeto’s Correspondence with Kuba on Discuss Actualism Forum
KUBA: Wow yes I saw this just a few minutes ago, I was getting ready and looking in the mirror. I saw that where this body exists time has no duration, there is such an incredible safety to this. Whereas where ‘I’ exist, across past, present and future it is so precarious. It was so clear experientially that nothing could ever go wrong where time has no duration and yet intellectually ‘I’ cannot quite wrap ‘my’ mind around why. This is incredible because I could never quite grasp the eternity of time, space was somehow easier to comprehend and I previously glimpsed that the space of this universe is infinite, as in having no edges and no outside. But to comprehend that this moment is eternal, that time has no duration means finding something that exists outside of the real world time span altogether. It does not fit in with any descriptions revolving around the past, present and future because it exists outside of that construct altogether. It is in itself the actuality ascertained apperceptively and it is beyond wonderful! It reminds me of Geoffrey writing that ‘he’ saw the ‘known way’ as the dangerous and the unknown way as safe,
‘I’ am the danger, where ‘I’ exist precariously across past, present and future. This body exists so safely
where time has no duration. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is truly wonderful, “beyond wonderful”. The way feeling being ‘Vineeto’ eventually understood actual time was to compare it to space – an arena, like a large football field, where events happen but the field always remains. Actual time is the arena, events happen and ‘I’, being emotional/ instinctually engaged with the events, take them for time itself. Because ‘I’ do know that this body was born and will die one day, and ‘I’ desperately yearn for permanency, for immortality … ‘I’ am too important to ever not be here. Yet once ‘I’ go in abeyance it is patently obvious that ‘I’ am not the centre around which everything revolves but that there is this wide open actuality, infinite and eternal and utterly still and real-world time has no existence. It is utterly safe and still. KUBA: This is yet another reason why actualism is experiential because all words have been invented by feeling beings and therefore on their own they cannot quite convey actuality, they will simply go around in circles and never reveal the actual nature of this universe. Eternal will be taken to mean a very long lapse of time or infinite a very long stretch of space and yet the actual experience of infinitude is outside of those descriptions. All of those real world descriptions still infer some ultimate movement/distance to time/space. Whereas actual time and space exist within the stillness of infinitude. Even writing the word “within” seems to screw it up. As in that stillness is the very infinite
and eternal nature of this universe. VINEETO: Yes, I had the same thought when I read it – the word “within” didn’t seem to be quite right and then your last sentence expressed it exactly. Only someone experiencing (or having experienced) actuality can say this with utter confidence. It is indeed experiential. SCOUT: May I ask – what does this mean? It feels directly in opposition to the Richard
quote you shared in Henry’s thread KUBA (to Scout): I’ll have a go at this in the meantime “You have all the time in the universe” is referring specifically to one’s experience as a flesh and blood body only, one exists where time has no duration. It is impossible to ever ‘run out of time’ as time does not move in actuality. Whereas as an identity ‘I’ am locked out of eternal time and instead ‘I’ exist precariously across the past, present and future. This is where ‘I’ am always managing, anticipating and running out of time. As it is always this moment, this body does not move through time like the identity moves across the past, present and future. Rather this body exists securelyineternal time. In eternal time there is no distance to be travelled between ‘then’ and ‘now’ as the immediate is the ultimate, whereas ‘I’ am forever shifting between these thin slivers of ‘real time’, desperately trying to hold, manage and anticipate each one. I think I have just answered in part my own question – of why is it that where time has no
duration there is such safety. Because all this painful psychological/psychic activity which comes from ‘managing
time’ (whilst being forever locked out of actual time) ceases when one exists in eternal time. Everything is in its
place already as one is not actually going anywhere or coming from somewhere. VINEETO: Yes, one can never run out of time in actuality, it is always now, and I am always here and the universe being perfect and pure everything is already perfect. To answer Scout’s question more in detail, here is a quote from Richard’s journal –
Cheers Vineeto
CLAUDIU: The other thing is I think I figured out a really key part of how to successfully self-immolate. If I approach it as ‘me’ ending, then there comes a point where it just feels impossible to proceed because I have myself firmly in mind and I can’t see what would happen next. So it is a dead end. But if I approach it more as me going “into the universe” or “more in the direction of the universe” (i.e. the one that actually exists) then the path is clear, especially when being receptive and aware of pure intent, the purity comes into perception and there’s a clear experience of getting closer to the actual world — and no limit in sight, just a matter of going further, getting used to it (as in the previous post), then further etc., and seems to be just a matter of doing this until it happens. Delightful questions also start to pop up like “wait actuality is already always here
(experienced as such) so how can I be going ‘into’ that which is already there? Where am I coming from such as to
go ‘into’ that? This place I’m coming from cannot actually exist can it…”, delicious to contemplate and
certainly a good sign in my book! KUBA: Hmm this is interesting because I have also been contemplating on those 2 modes.
One is to set ‘my’ sights on allowing perfection and purity more and more until ‘I’ disappear. I have been leaning towards the second one and it seems you are leaning towards the first one. KUBA: Funnily enough I had this exact thought happen when I had that PCE today. I saw that this body exists where time has no duration and there was this utter safety to this. I thought well why can’t I just remain here when this is all that genuinely exists. And yet this is the point that I am trying to make, that unless ‘I’ make the decision to
disappear completely then there will always be ‘something’ to come back to. KUBA: That is to say there will be an aspect of the unknown, of not being able to possibly go any further. That last bit to be bridged can only be done by ‘my’ extinction. It reminds me of Srinath’s report of becoming free. That he was as if Moses looking at the promised land and yet being forbidden from entry. This is exactly how I find it, that no matter how closely ‘I’ creep up to actuality, ‘I’
am still forbidden entry and this will never change. CLAUDIU: So too similarly with self-immolation — I go towards actuality with the intent of ending ‘me’, that it will be ‘my’ demise, a permanent ending of ‘me’ instead of temporarily. But practically it is a seamless transition between two worlds — brought about by being willing to go into that sweetness / giving myself up for that sweetness (to combine from a few reports of people succeeding). Indeed ‘me’ going into actuality doesn’t make sense. But “going into the direction of
actuality” seems to experientially work. VINEETO: Hi Kuba and Claudiu, What a delightful interaction to read this morning. The way I see it from the observer’s perspective, you both have made the decision to ‘self’-immolate a long time ago, when you both went out from under control. The only decision left, if you have any say in the matter given to have allowed the universe to live you, is *when*. Asking ‘how’ is inviting the ‘doer’ back into the picture and the ‘doer’ has no answers but to whole-heartedly and joyfully acquiesce to the long-awaited blessed oblivion. As Kuba stated, PCEs happen when ‘I’ am naïve enough to allow them to happen, and the same
is the case for ‘self’-immolation. ‘Vineeto’s’ experience was that when ‘she’ determined that now, this
very evening, was the best time because of the circumstances, all that was left ‘to do’ was a gay abandon to have
the time of ‘her’ life in utterly enjoying being here, with fun and frivolity and, of course, the very
appreciation of it all. To explain, you both have already decided *that* it is going to happen, and once you determined *when*, then there is nothing else to do but to party. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO (to Jon): You say that“pure intent is utterly
unhuman” because it is not in your human experience. But the word “intent” in this phrase is
the feeling being’s sincere intent to bring about the purity one has experienced (if you could only remember it) at
least one time in one’s life. The purity is of the actual world, the intent is from the feeling being wanting to
(eventually) live in the actual world. KUBA: Oh wow what a brilliant way to describe it, I now get it completely! That is why pure
intent is one’s active connection to actuality, because it comprises both the ‘human’ aspect which is the
intent and the aspect of purity which is outside of ‘humanity’. And naïveté is where ‘I’ can keep this
connection readily open. VINEETO: Thank you Kuba,
Cheers Vineeto
FELIX: Especially with the burnout it doesn’t even feel like
feelings it feels more like a “state”, and it’s unpleasant. KUBA: When I read this something stood out for me and I wonder if it may be what is happening for you. I remember when I was deep into Vipassana I eventually got to a point where I no longer experienced feelings as affective phenomena but rather only as physical sensations. Initially I thought this was a good sign, some kind of progress towards freedom from them. But later on I realised that it only made things worse, because it cemented the feelings as something that was now unreachable/unchangeable. For how could ‘I’ change a physical symptom, it’s not like ‘I’ can stop feeling pain or tell ‘my’ heart to slow down by choice. Years later when I began applying the actualism method I had to unravel this mess. I remember symptoms of feeling tight, tired, uncomfortable, painful etc. It was like ‘my’ whole body was infused with a disease. I remember experiencing daily these episodes of intense ‘physical discomfort’, later on these turned out to be affectively rooted though. The tip that allowed me to deal with this thing wasClaudiuencouraging me to find the ‘affective flavour’ of the feeling. That instead of seeing only the physical symptom I could ‘taste’ that unique flavour of the emotion that was behind it (even though at the beginning it seemed the emotion was not there). What I did was develop the willingness to ‘taste’ and then fully ‘live’ the emotions which were at the root of this ‘physical discomfort’. It took a while of consistently chipping away like this (at times this
was quite intense too) but eventually they disappeared completely and same for any symptoms of burn out like constant
tiredness, feeling painful, tight etc. Hi Kuba, What a fascinating story and a brilliant description of it! It strongly reminds me of Richard’s article about ‘Dissociation and Trauma’
Your description added another aspect to it – with deliberate dissociation (Eastern spiritual meditation) one creates a traumatic state which is very hard to escape from, once the dissociation has been successful. This is one of the awful side-effects of Eastern spirituality. I remember Claudiu talking about how difficult it was to extract himself from the effects of intensely practicing Dharma Overground meditation. Nobody who is promoting this stuff ever thinks of the consequences and ramifications their ‘good deed’ inflict on people. Thank you for providing this report how you reversed the detrimental side-effects of such spiritual practice … and now demonstrate the experiential success of the Third Alternative. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: It seems like the choice at this point is as Vineeto mentioned I find that if I bring this to my consciousness, that I will do it/it will happen now, things immediately start to change, like I am then on track towards my destiny and anything else is detracting from that. When I am on track towards my destiny I can see that there is indeed incentive in doing it, like
the universe has truly “sweetened the pot”. That it is a big sacrifice but the incentive is far bigger,
like a sweet song of impending oblivion. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Time to put on my dancing shoes, hey? Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Reading all these quotes it’s fascinating that I can relate to all that is being
described experientially like never before, which means I am on the launchpad, just need to press the button for take
off. However as per the quote that Vineeto sent :
[emphasis added]. 
(Richard, Actual Freedom List, No. 94a, 30 December 2005)
The funny thing is that this – “they will not know what that is until it happens – and
when they do know what to do it will be too late to stop the happening” is exactly what happened in the dreams! Lately the way I am seeing the human condition is like I as this body have been here all along and ‘I’ only imagined/believed that ‘I’ existed. Which is very bizarre because ‘I’ must self immolate and at times ‘I’ can feel like ‘I’ weigh a tonne, and yet those other times ‘my’ existential status is so very flimsy that really it never had any substance to being with. So looking from one side it is so very difficult for ‘me’ and then from the other side it’s like it’s all over nothing. Also from one side ‘I’ am giving up everything and from the other side there is nothing there of substance to give up other than an illusion, which by it’s very definition has no substance!
KUBA: I didn’t reply to this, not because I disregard the message, rather it seems the only way I can reply with integrity and appreciation is by action, and there is only 1 action left now! It’s becoming quite a fascinating/ exhilarating thing to look for, this button that exists
within ‘me’. And to know that once found ‘I’ will have already pressed it. I am certain this button exists,
just waiting to be pressed. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I didn’t expect a reply but I was skipping from the back deck to the kitchen (which is not very far) when I had read you previous post. It is such a delicious joy to read your posts and those of all the others who report success and getting closer and closer to their destiny – my appreciation for this happening right in front my eyes is immense. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Wow indeed, contemplating your post has put ‘me’ in dangerous territory, dangerous for ‘me’. IAN: Part of the illusion is the feeling that there is a tie or anchor or root or a binding
structure that keeps it there. KUBA: ‘I’ anchor ‘myself’, there is actually nothing substantial anchoring ‘me’ other than ‘myself’. This pin that keeps ‘me’ in place can be pulled out so that ‘I’ unravel. It seems such a little thing to do and yet the implications are scary. Scary not in the sense that there is any genuine danger but rather because of the magnitude of the shift, of the fact that all of ‘me’ disappears, and then there is nothing but that magical perfection and purity welling up in all directions. It’s like am I ready to be this very magical perfection and purity experiencing itself as a flesh and blood body, that is rather extreme! Not that it makes ‘me’ stop in ‘my’ tracks, in fact ‘I’ know this is exactly where ‘I’ am to proceed. But apprehending oblivion and also the magnitude of what lies after ‘my’ annihilation is daunting and alluring at the same time. […] It’s like things would shift from ‘me’ existing as this tiny ‘I’ and instead this body
would be the very infinite and eternal universe experiencing itself, that is such a huge shift. Then there could not
be any boundaries between this body and the rest of infinitude, the perfection and purity which wells up in all
directions could not be contained into a neat box or somehow hidden from. Perhaps this is exactly what happens with
the newly free state. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, When you say: “But apprehending oblivion and also the magnitude of what lies after ‘my’ annihilation is daunting and alluring at the same time” – I can understand the first part of the sentence but that you have a “daunting” “apprehending of what lies after ‘my’ annihilation” is really not ‘your’ concern. ‘You’ are arrogating …um… ‘responsibility’ for something which is clearly outside ‘your’ domain. I won’t divulge how you already know where the pin is, it might be too thrilling … ⁽*⁾ Ah, life is such a magnificent adventure! Cheers Vineeto ⁽*⁾
KUBA: The other side of this experience is that I can see that the universe will not force me to be happy and harmless or to self-immolate within this lifetime, infinitude is already complete and so it is in no rush in that sense, ultimately it is completely down to me. Furthermore I can see that the universe is not ultimately concerned with individual life, again because of it’s absoluteness as per the previous posts, so there is no guarantees for this flesh and blood body made by the universe, the universe is too grand to have to play these kind of games. In the past I saw this as a sign of a malevolent universe, “why doesn’t it care about ‘me’?” But this line of reasoning only applies as long as ‘selves’ are in existence, because ‘we’ are separated from infinitude, we are these contingent little bubbles. The suffering caused by ‘being’ a ‘self’ is because of ‘my’ contingent nature. ‘I’ look at the infinite and eternal universe as if it is a bully, it does not care about the things that ‘I’ do, it does not play the games that ‘I’ am invested in. But this is not due to malevolence but rather the fact that infinitude simply has no need for these games, it is far too grand for that. It’s fascinating that all these facts of life are ‘baked into’ perfection, as in
it could not be any other way. Only an infinite and eternal universe can be perfect (without compare) and the rest of
the above simply flows from this. If ‘I’ was to demand the universe to change in line with ‘my’ needs then it
would no longer be perfect, it would be a contingent universe, a desperate universe, it would be just like ‘me’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, You are right, one can’t give the universe anthropomorphic qualities, such as caring for me or not, and your ultimate conclusion is spot on. It is brilliant reasoning – if the universe would cater to ‘me’ it would no longer be perfect. And that also beats any interfering/ obliging god by a country-mile. This very insight/ observation is the end of any possible resentment. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So sitting out in the garden having a cigarette just now it clicked that ‘I’ cannot self immolate ‘myself’, I can see this clearly that it would mean that ‘I’ remain by the end. I saw this when ‘I’ thought let ‘me’ just try really hard to self-immolate now, like ‘I’ would be the agent doing the self-immolating with great effort and of course it immediately became clear that this is a dead end. It’s like ‘I’ would be the one shifting this heavy load that is ‘myself’ but then of course ‘I’ would remain.It would literally be a case of ‘me’ trying to lift ‘myself’ up by ‘my’ bootstraps. I can see how this kind of ‘trying hard’ (as if ‘I’ am lifting a heavy load that is ‘me’) cannot work and in fact it could lead to actuality mimicking ASCs. In a way that is good news though! To see that ‘I’ could not possibly do it means that ‘I’ don’t have to worry about that. I am reminded ofClaudiuwriting prior to stepping out from control that “allowing
it is not a lacklustre approach” So ‘I’ can channel all ‘my’ affective passionate energy towards agreeing to get out of the way permanently. It is not about channelling all that energy towards ‘me’ becoming as if a prime mover to self immolation happening. ‘I’ can channel all of ‘myself’ towards allowing ‘my’ own ending, the doing of it is not for ‘me’ to worry about. Since that experience VINEETO: Hi Kuba, This is such an enjoyable post I can’t help replying. Since you have seen that ‘you’ cannot immolate ‘your’ self and also because you and Claudiu were wondering how it will be after it happens, I just found the perfect quotes earlier today for both questions –
It looks like with all those wonderful excellence experiences and PCEs you are indeed acclimatising yourself. And you will find that you already know, have always known, the actuality of an actual freedom –
KUBA: Initially when I saw that the universe will not force ‘me’ to self-immolate as it
is already complete, ‘I’ thought well then why do it? Like if things are already perfect then does it really
matter? And ultimately for the universe it does not matter, which is why one does it for this body, that body and
everybody. It is still quite weird though because those bodies are ultimately no different than the universe itself
and yet they are capable of experiencing the meaning of life, that is what is ultimately at stake. That “invitation to paradise So then I was thinking, coming so far out from ‘humanity’, is the motivation to allow self-immolation going to come from this side (actuality) or from the other side (‘humanity’). It’s like the ‘humanity’ side is a place of utter desperation and the actuality side is a place of magical perfection and purity. I am not sure if it can come from the ‘humanity’ side because ‘humanity’ will be left behind ‘back there’ along with ‘me’. ‘They’ will not be saved when ‘I’ self immolate, in fact ‘they’ will be left in progressively dwindling numbers, huddling in desperation. Ha so just like the universe is seen to be an uncaring bully by those looking from within the
human condition, to abandon ‘humanity’ and proceed to paradise will equally be seen as a betrayal. VINEETO: You will certainly have to consider yourself a traitor to humanity, but don’t worry, nobody will notice. Feeling beings have the uncanny ability of automorphism to fill the gaps where you don’t provide the psychic and affective requirements to be recognized as one of them. Animals will notice, though, they are neither afraid nor attracted because of the missing vibes. Your question regarding where the motivation comes from is answered here “An actual freedom happens of itself only when one is fully ready, and not before.” ‘You’ are motivated to get “fully ready” then “an actual freedom happens of itself”. As for “the universe doesn’t ultimately have anything at stake here” – that
is for you to discover experientially when you are the universe experiencing itself as a flesh-and-blood body sans
identity. I see that you answered your question already in your next post Ah, it is such fun. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: … although it wasn’t an anxiety for
me it was more like being faced with just how meaningless ‘my’ life is. Of the fact that ‘I’ will dissolve and
would have ultimately meant nothing. It was like ‘I’ couldn’t turn in any way to avoid this seeing, eventually
‘I’ simply allowed it to do it’s thing. It was like acclimatising ‘myself’ to being/always having been
redundant. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, It looks like you looking on the not-so-bright side just now. You forget that when it’s ‘done’ it was ‘you’ and only ‘you’ who did it, so that your body and the people around you can have a ball. And one can still count the pioneers on two hands. So, stop complaining ! :) Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: What the universeis is perfection and purity but this perfection and purity can only “do human things” as a human being. So this is what is at stake, not the universe itself, that’s like trying to save a rock. It is the fact that as a human being this perfection and purity can be aware of itself, this is what is so very precious, this is what is at stake and this is unique to human beings only. So although as a flesh and blood body I am this very universe there is something unique there, in
that only as a flesh and blood body is the universe aware of itself! VINEETO: Yes. “What is at stake” here is the universe being able to be apperceptively aware of its own infinitude as unmediated human consciousness, and this is truly wonderful. Here is my favourite piece of Richard’s Journal, I just couldn’t resist to post it again – it bring tears of appreciation to my eyes each time I read it –
* CLAUDIU: It does seem like the key at this final stage is sensuousness. I reread Geoffrey’s report A naive sensuousness is what led to my rock solid PCE that removed any remaining doubts. Sensuousness is the “thing to do” with all my freed up energy. Sensuousness is the gateway into actuality. Sensuousness points and orients me to the actual world. I don’t have to worry or fret about self-immolating or “making progress”. Instead I can be carefree, assured it will happen, so long as I do my part which is revelling and delighting in sensuousness! But I don’t have to do anything other than that, is the point. I don’t have to worry about it, the universe will do it. It doesn’t mean I can ‘relax’ as in going back to my old ways. That takes me further away.
But I can go forward via sensuousness.
– I don’t know precisely the mechanism of how I will self-immolate but I am
really pretty sure that sensuousness will lead to it happening! KUBA: Hehe yes that seems a good idea, ‘I’ instead decided to mourn ‘my’ meaningless
existence. VINEETO: “meaningless existence”, my foot! lol. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO (to Felix):
KUBA: Wow well this quote from Peter couldn’t be timed any better! Claudiu It is quite uncanny how things operate in actuality. Almost eerie for ‘me’ to try to wrap ‘my’ head around. Vineeto, it is as if you – by existing outside of the human condition and living securely locked inside eternal time – can “call the shots” before ‘I’ see them. But that is only because those things are already happening, it is ‘me’ that is behind schedule as ‘I’ am locked out of time. Once ‘I’ catch onto what’s happening it is too late, it’s already in effect. This has happened multiple times now and it’s a bit mind boggling. It is as if what Richard described in this correspondence is what is happening here. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I have no idea myself. I did not know what was happening to you and I am delighted you told me. It
reminds me of Felix who asked me, what’s next, and he is already right in the middle of this ‘next’. The quote from Peter was incidental, I had followed another’s link regarding the description of “locked in time” and there at the end of the quote Peter said exactly what I had written to Claudiu, that “‘making sense’ then has to be abandoned for direct sensate experiencing.” It seems apperception has happened without any deliberate plan or thinking. But then, facts are the same everywhere no matter which human being and/or apperceptively conscious human being perceives them. “Once ‘I’ catch onto what’s happening it is too late, it’s already in effect”. It is “mind boggling” for you because sometimes developments happen which an outside observer can see a little earlier than the person that it is happening to. It is also the inevitable outcome of allowing the universe to run your life via pure intent instead of being in control via the controller. And sometimes genuine magic does happen (which no science can yet explain because it has to catch up
first), such as described in Richard’s tooltips in Peter’s becoming free report on the announcement page ( What Richard describes at the link KUBA: thereafter an analogy akin to that of a maestro conducting an orchestra is suggestive of the
actual in action. VINEETO: In 2009/2010 Richard did seem like “a maestro conducting an orchestra” for a while until events settled down. What happens at present is rather a demonstration that actuality is the same everywhere (in essence) and synchronicity happens, which may have something to do with common human consciousness devoid of psychic influence, plus the happy and harmless vibes notably increasing on the forum. I always wondered if there wasn’t such a thing as an existential network based on actual common human consciousness, and the psychic web simply piggy-backs on it and might atrophy at some point in history. However, there is far too little known to speculate any further. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So things are once again going wonderfully, the levels of pure sensate delight which I am experiencing are really just off the charts. I can see that in actual freedom it is all that is left. As in there is only the direct sensate experience of the perfection and purity all around, with not a single bit of ‘dirt’ to get in the way. Words fail to describe just how delicious this is, indeed it seems something like this could blow one’s fuses if apprehended without prior acclimatisation. It’s almost like being “assaulted” from all possible angles by utter delight, it is in everything/ anything that is experienced, without cessation. I am not sure how the last piece of pizza that is ‘me’ will go but for now it seems remaining in this utterly delightful place is the way to go. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, So the process which started for you on July 1 this year KUBA: Something which Richard wrote in his journal has been on my mind, which is to allow this moment to live me as opposed to ‘me’ living in the present. This never made sense in the past but now I can see what this is about, it is exactly in this direction where I am proceeding. There is resistance at this prospect though, it seems like it could be almost too overwhelming to commit to fully. Where this moment lives me there is no buffer for the perfection and purity, like I could become that “psychological omelette” if I found myself fully locked into that utterly delightful place with nowhere else to escape to. VINEETO: Indeed, allowing the moment to live me is equivalent to being here at this place now, in this only and ever-fresh moment that I can actually experience. As for “‘me’ living in the present”, you might enjoy this quote –
As for “no buffer for the perfection and purity” – you only get what you can handle. Of course, any objection or resistance can make it feel too much to bear. To become a “psychological omelette” like U.G. Krishnamurti you first would have to be enlightened. He was lost in the upper echelons of the apotheosised field of consciousness (psychic maze). Well, your ‘sulky’ ‘me’ in the corner, instead of joining the party, is working full-steam to come up with worst-case scenarios. I can well understand from memory how inventive ‘I’ can be, when ‘my’ existence is more and more demonstrably at stake. Fear of insanity can be greater than fear of death.
KUBA: So I guess it is kind of neat that ‘I’ won’t be there to have to suffer through
all that delight. VINEETO: Haha, Kuba, the flesh-and-blood-body will – what fate, what destiny! Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: I have no idea myself. I did not know what was happening to
you and I am delighted you told me. It reminds me of Felix who asked me, what’s next, and he is already right in the
middle of this ‘next’. KUBA: Yes I first observed this happening around the time when I went out from control but I think I needed a bit more naïveté and confidence in my experience to write it out, this time I took the risk of appearing foolish haha. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Mmh, you didn’t look “foolish” to me but naiveté can have that effect. When you live naively, i.e. when you don’t know what is happening next, because ‘you’ gave over the controls to pure intent living ‘you’, it is only to be expected to be happening more and more. You might as well throw the notion of foolishness out the window and have confidence in the “actually occurring stream of benevolence and benignity that originates in the vast and utter stillness that is the essential character of the universe itself”. * VINEETO: What happens at present is rather a demonstration that actuality is the same everywhere (in essence) and synchronicity happens KUBA: Yes synchronicity is a great word for what I was trying to get at. It’s funny because ‘I’ being locked away from the rest of existence experience it as if ‘I’ am making ‘my’ various discoveries in a vacuum. And yet there is a lot more actually going on. VINEETO: That would only be because ‘you’ are still pretending to run the show whereas your experiences prove otherwise (“a lot more actually going on”), such as experiencing fellow travellers as people in their own right. I am confident you experience them that way but are still surprised when the overall information you receive from such near-intimate experience doesn’t fit any of your pre-existing templates. It’s all good fun. * VINEETO: “Once ‘I’ catch onto what’s happening it is too late, it’s already in effect”. It is “mind boggling” for you because sometimes developments happen which an outside observer can see a little earlier than the person that it is happening to. It is also the inevitable outcome of allowing the universe to run your life via pure intent instead of being in control via the controller. KUBA: Well isn’t this another huge bonus of daring to step out from control, as Richard wrote “one is supported by the universe”. And indeed discoveries of a serendipitous nature can be made because of this. VINEETO: Exactly. So why allow the ‘controller’ to judge your serendipitous experiences with this backward yardstick? Doesn’t the ‘controller’ know ‘he’ is fired? * VINEETO: What Richard describes at the link KUBA: Yes this is something that I am discovering more and more these days and it’s another
one of those mind boggling things. Normally ‘I’ experience ‘myself’ as a lone ‘I’, forever separated and
sitting in ‘my’ ivory tower, where ‘I’ apparently run the show. And again there is so much more going on. It’s
wonderful to contemplate that all this is happening and the outcomes are clearly visible. VINEETO: Yes, this is this lost, lonely, frightened and very, very cunning entity sitting in the corner sulking for having lost some power instead of coming to the party which is in full swing, and gladly giving up their burdensome existence for a very noble cause – nothing less than peace on earth. I do understand from memory what a stubborn fellow ‘I’ can be. Cheers Vineeto PS: As for the “Maestro” in this quote “thereafter an analogy akin to that of a maestro conducting an orchestra is suggestive of the actual in action” – it did give me an existential jolt of puissance reading it – perhaps you do vaguely (?) perceive something which I cannot, as I do not act according any ‘plan’ other than furthering peace on earth as well as I can.
VINEETO:
KUBA: The above quote from Richard is a good one! So even those sane tenets of reality have to be taken with a pinch of salt in order to remain ‘normal’. So indeed those tenets are completely unliveable, for to live their full extent is to become insane. This makes sense as those very tenets of reality came from the god men, from the insane. The hypocrisy that is required to maintain reality is something else haha. It’s like people who (in the same breath) advocate love as the ultimate cure and then will comment how a new couple in their honeymoon stage will soon ‘regain their sanity’ when love inevitably cools down. So those tenets are taught and advocated as the way to live but deep down everyone knows that
they are unliveable. When someone goes ahead and lives those tenets to their full extent then they are seen to have
‘lost it’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I appreciate your insight.
I salute your audacity. Cheers Vineeto
VINEETO: PS: As for the “Maestro” in this
quote “thereafter an analogy akin to that of a maestro conducting an orchestra is suggestive of the actual in
action” – it did give me an existential jolt of puissance reading it – perhaps you do vaguely (?)
perceive something which I cannot, as I do not act according any ‘plan’ other than furthering peace on earth as
well as I can. KUBA: Yes I was going to reply to this one too but at the same time being careful as not to go into unnecessary theorising. What I can tell with certainty is that I couldn’t have made it even this far if it wasn’t for the assistance of others. ‘I’ always saw ‘myself’ as a kind of proud overachiever but ‘I’ definitely met ‘my’ match with Actualism . It is actually incredible how Geoffrey seems to have done it, relatively unaided and so quickly. But before the events of this year I was somewhat stuck, I was on that same plateau for about a year or so and things just weren’t budging any further. Richard’s death provided the initial impetus and Claudiu proceeding to step out from control gave me something repeatable to aim for. But the other big aspect was Vineeto posting on this forum. I always wanted to be able to interact with an actually free individual but for what ever reason Srinath and Geoffrey took a more hands off approach. But the way things have been proceeding for me since Vineeto started posting here is indeed like being ushered forward as if by a maestro conducting an orchestra. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Thank you for explaining further how you perceive the role of the “maestro”. You first clearly delineate that there is/was a “kind of proud overachiever” of doing things successfully on your own without having to acknowledge/ appreciate the beneficial input you received from others. Whereas with actualism, being something entirely new to human history, you had to mainly rely on Richard’s reports / descriptions/ explanations to learn about it until your own PCEs gave you your own loadstone. Even then you needed information /encouragement as to how to put actualism into practice most efficiently. Now that I know what you mean by the role of the “maestro” I can tell you how the modus operandi writing on the forum works: I am primarily interested for your sake as you are a fellow human being, to aid your goal of becoming actually free. I am secondarily interested and aware of all other active members to aid with information, and thirdly I am interested for everybody’s sake (for the sake of flesh and blood bodies in general) as another person being actually free increases the possibility of setting a chain-reaction in process, and also people naively being happy and harmless increases the likelihood of an equivalent ambience. There is nothing special, it comes with the territory of actual caring. It is not always crowned with success as Richard’s writings to several hundreds of correspondents demonstrates. KUBA: The very cool thing to note is that Vineeto does not have any power, it is not like ‘I’ could be manipulated by her to move in a certain direction. This being ushered forward is only possible because of ‘my’ concurrence. Ultimately this is possible only because ‘I’ have given way to pure intent. VINEETO: Yes, it is in ‘your’ hands alone to the very end. KUBA: When I first noticed this, it was shortly after I stepped out from control and I noticed this incredible way in which things were proceeding. Where Vineeto would write something that seemed like the next step for ‘me’ to proceed to, surely enough the next day I found that things were happening in exactly that way. It made me wonder whether ‘I’ was already “there” so to speak, and so whether she wrote something or not I would have ended up in the same place anyways. Or was the acknowledgement of what she was writing somehow ushering me to proceed in this new direction, or was it a mix of it all. But this is where it gets kind of mind boggling trying to suss out the cause and effect relationships. VINEETO: I am always amazed how you, after relinquishing your first scepticism around your
image of ‘Vineeto’
KUBA: So yes in the end I am left with this word synchronicity and the realisation that ‘I’ clearly cannot do it unaided. It feels nice writing this out and letting whatever is left of pride disappear. After all even Richard needed Devika to “crack the code”. It is so obvious that human beings are so very intertwined with one another and ‘I’ cannot do it in a vacuum. Perhaps this is partly why it took so long for the first pioneer (Richard), to be the first certainly took something exceptional. Well each pioneer has to be exceptional but let’s say Richard was exceptionally exceptional. VINEETO: I am with you that only “exceptionally exceptional” people can
become actually free unaided, and for those who do there is a track record. Even Geoffrey reported how much he
appreciated the help received when Alan and Donna
And feeling being ‘Vineeto’ understood from the start that in no way ‘she’ could become free of ‘her’ own. There never was this kind of ambition either. Apart from the words written, the felicitous vibes/currents on the forum are certainly influential. However, given that the word synchronicity has much currency in the real world (rightly or wrongly attributed), it may not apply for every situation where you perceive it so, and this is because ‘I’ will grasp any opportunity to explain away and control any experience, even when it is outside ‘my’ capacity to do so, such as the magicality of the actual world –
Richard’s ambience-atmosphere-milieu effect may be a more apt description –
KUBA: There is also something quite sweet in giving up this pride and
seeing that “we are in this together”, as in that human beings have to work together to extricate ourselves
from this mess that we have landed in. Because in admitting that I cannot do it unaided I also realise that I am not
only doing this for myself. That indeed every time I inch forward, I am bringing others with me and vice versa, and
that this is happening not only by the words written but more importantly through the ‘psychic network’, the
effects of which are clearly visible on the forum. VINEETO: Yes and no. It is wonderful that this insight gives you a solid reason that becoming actually free is not only for your benefit but for everybody. And yet this self-sacrifice is still the decision ‘you’ have to make of ‘your’ own accord, by yourself. Just beware so that this motivation for altruism does not transmogrify into a feeling of belonging and thus pull you back into humanity (as you already demonstrated in you next post. Cheers Vineeto \ KUBA: And of course it goes without saying that those effects apply not just between Actualists but inevitably affect all of one’s fellow human beings. That when ‘I’ am ‘being’ felicity and innocuity and ‘I’ am ‘being’ naïveté, that ‘I’ have already affected others. As to how others are affected by the existence of actually free fellow human beings I am not too sure. Of course there is the negative aspect, and what I mean by that is that the absence of sorrow and malice will of course have a beneficial effect, essentially 1 less sorrowful and malicious entity in existence. But I wonder if there is a positive aspect, that just like when ‘I’ am happy and harmless
‘I’ inevitably bring others with ‘me’. Is there something intrinsic to the existence of actually free humans
that pulls others closer to perfection and purity. This would certainly supply motivation to proceed. It would be so
very worth doing. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, First the obvious reasons which everyone can understand.
You can see, when you look more closely, that the whole forum only exists because so many people have dared to care and cared to dare to go all the way to self-immolation. Furthermore, by coming out of enlightenment Richard most likely destroyed the possibility for anyone to become fully deluded –
* KUBA: It was not so much that I am concerned with what ability this body would have in assisting others in becoming actually free. It’s more that I can see the positive aspect that ‘I’ have on others by being happy and harmless, it is an active effect, those ripples are actively doing something beneficial. So I guess the ‘fear’ is that once I proceed all the way to actual freedom that any ‘link’ will be cut. And so any active benefit will no longer be possible. The only benefit will then be that others can likewise go all the way by knowing that it is possible. VINEETO: Ha, how skilled ‘you’ are to downplay the magicality of paradise on earth, and to increase the possibility for peace on earth for many more people to come and for future generation. KUBA: But I guess what I am trying to get at is will there be an active benefit for others
“in the meantime” whilst I am actually free. Will the existence of this flesh and blood body free of the
instinctual passions and the identify formed thereof actively benefit others “in the meantime”. And yes
furthermore will it assist them ultimately by pulling them forward in a way that is more than just the fact of
another person having done it. Kuba: Well at least I have pinpointed another objection haha. Edit : It seems the best
way to find this out is to go and interact with others whilst in that utterly delightful place VINEETO: You are right, Kuba, this is really an objection coming from the one who wants to stay in existence as in “look, ‘I’ can still be useful”. It must be feeling-backed because it looks so silly (or gullible) to me, after all the processes you have undertaken in order to become actually free. It’s all right, of course, for ‘in the meanwhile’ but on sensible dispassionate, if not PCE-inspired, deliberation, what do you reckon which benefits outweigh the other? And remember, being out-from-control is not a safe and stable condition – either one keeps going forward or falls backward. That was Devika/Irene’s lesson for ‘Vineeto’. * EMP: You’re not a bodhisattva. But on a more serious note, I think it’s far more beneficial to have
more actually free people. KUBA: This is funny although at the same time it’s not a laughing matter as that is the reason humankind is in the mess that it is in to begin with! It seems what I am circling is the fact that ‘I’ cannot do it for ‘me’, but now it’s clear that ‘I’ cannot do it for ‘humanity’ either. VINEETO: I don’t see how “it’s clear that ‘I’ cannot do it for ‘humanity’ either” because ‘your’ ‘self’-sacrifice will manumit your body from its dominator and will allow you to report experientially how wonderful it is to live in the actual world. Ah, rationality without common sense just cannot see the bigger picture! Can you at least see the limitation ‘me’ is bestowing on your perception? KUBA: So there is that jump from ‘humanity’ into actuality and it means leaving all that behind. Which means there has to be utter confidence that this course of action is ultimately beneficial for all, and not just in an intellectual manner but as an overall experiential seeing, this is what I seem to be circling. VINEETO: The “overall experiential seeing” happens when you are either in a PCE or in an outstanding excellence experience where pure intent is allowed to flow freely. Presently you seem to be arguing from a non-engaged, almost dissociated, intellectual position. For comparison –
KUBA: ‘I’ will not give ‘myself’ permission to allow self immolation without this
confidence. Which is one of those ‘frustrating’ things. That this utter purity and perfection is at the
fingertips and ‘I’ am not willing to give ‘myself’ permission to exit the scene and allow it irrevocably. VINEETO: I do appreciate your honesty Kuba, it allows to discuss your latest objection point by point. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: Although I am not quite sure I understand what you wrote below : VINEETO: I don’t see how “it’s clear that ‘I’ cannot do it for ‘humanity’ either” because ‘your’ ‘self’-sacrifice will manumit your body from its dominator and will allow you to report experientially how wonderful it is to live in the actual world KUBA: Because what I was referring to here is the fact that ‘humanity’ will end along
with ‘me’, so ‘I’ cannot use any motivation coming from ‘humanity’ to end ‘myself’ as ‘I’ am ‘humanity’
and ‘humanity’ is ‘me’. I was using the term ‘humanity’ specifically to refer to what exists in reality vs.
humankind referring to actual flesh and blood human beings. […] VINEETO: Hi Kuba, I may have misunderstood. In the phrase “as ‘I’ am ‘humanity’ and ‘humanity’ is ‘me’” you are referring to the human condition as ‘you’, all of ‘you’, connected with your feelings and psyche via the psychic web. Of course this is different to humankind. But what is it that you want to “do it for ‘humanity’ either”? It still is not clear to me. Cheers Vineeto * VINEETO: But what is it that you want to “do it for ‘humanity’ either”? KUBA: So I was responding to Emp reminding me that I am not a bodhisattva. This is when it began to click that not proceeding towards actual freedom for the sake of ‘humanity’ is exactly what the enlightened beings did. And that ultimately this led to the perpetuation of human suffering. So this is what I meant when I wrote that ‘I’ cannot do it for ‘me’ but ‘I’ cannot do it for ‘humanity’ either. But the thing was not resolved yet as later on I continued to look for something that would be *ultimately beneficial for all*. But this “all” was a cunning way for ‘me’ to include ‘humanity’ right back into the picture. As described in my above posts, in this scenario both the actual flesh and blood bodies as well as ‘humanity’ would get to win. But this kind of motivation ends up being a mess, where things basically continue exactly as
they are. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Thank you for the clarification – and thank you Emp for reminding Kuba he is not a Bodhisattva. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So the Bodhisattva saga continues. I had a rather long and intense interaction with Felix yesterday and it has been on my mind since. How is it that 2 clearly well meaning individuals can nevertheless ‘lock horns’ despite the best intentions. It is clear that whatever ‘battling’ was going on was primarily happening on the level of vibes and psychic power play, which makes it that much harder to initially spot and properly outline. I have been trying to get to the bottom of just exactly ‘I’ was putting out that was ‘dirty’. What I have been outlining since is quite slippery because it hides behind the intention/ identity of ‘helping others’ but really it is just another form of belonging. […] VINEETO: Hi Kuba, At a guess, from careful reading of both of your reports in the past weeks, it may well be that both of you have a similar personality – that of being “a high achiever” and wanting to share your insights by ‘helping’. As such you would have been in competition who is the better helper. The human race is a ‘herding animal’ and as such it is very natural to want to provide assistance to each other, besides being driven by the well-known instinctual passions. It has helped the human race not only to survive but to thrive. You have now put your finger on the ‘dirty’ aspect of this ‘helping others’ – belonging. KUBA: It’s the kind of identity that can get ‘me’ right up to the doors marked self-immolation but ‘I’ will never walk through. There is just way too much stock being placed in remaining a member of ‘humanity’. This seems like the bed rock of what ‘Kuba’ is as an identity, it seems the thing has now begun unravelling though. I can see that remaining a member of ‘humanity’ only to continue ‘assisting others’ (which cannot work cleanly anyways) is like enjoying martyrdom, it’s so much painful work and for what. So any proceeding forward has a personal agenda in it, in that ‘my’ whole life ‘I’ have functioned in a framework of ‘find wisdom → share wisdom’. Where ‘I’ simply cannot even contemplate going somewhere without this agenda of coming back with something to offer. The priorities are back to front, which is that much more difficult to pinpoint because it appears selfless. I can see how this tendency has always sapped fun from various activities, for example in BJJ, as soon as I would develop some new way of doing a technique or what have you, I would immediately begin obsessing over how to teach it to others. It was always felt like an obligation/responsibility, that I was not allowed to keep it for myself. This tendency was one of the longest standing ones that I had to chip away at. It seemed as if things could not be enjoyed unless they were shared with others. But really it looks like the whole thing is just a ploy to cover up the fear of proceeding somewhere completely on ‘my’ own, without the safety of the group. VINEETO: It is interesting that you say “this tendency has always sapped fun from various activities”. You nevertheless put this no-fun observation aside in your general actualism practice of enjoying and appreciation of each moment of being alive, and now, after other obstacles have been removed it stares you right in the face. Actualism is not about being “selfless” but diminishing and ultimately voluntarily sacrificing ‘me’, the ‘self’.
KUBA: This whole thing reminds me of Richard’s observation that
if “one is driven by some force (no matter how good), then one is not actually free”.
(Richard’s Journal, Chapter One). VINEETO: This is an excellent appraisal. This “force” which is driving you, the passionate force for ‘self’-survival, can, when pinpointed and exposed, give you the necessary passionate motivation for the altruism required for the last step. When you turn it into passionate and genuine care for the well-being of humankind or intimate genuine care for one particular human being there is a way forward. Richard had always referred to abandoning humanity as the penultimate step. Here he wrote to feeling being ‘Vineeto’ in 1999 when ‘she’ had asked him about what belonging to humanity means –
Everyone’s ‘belonging to humanity’ can have different expressions, whatever each individual is most passionately holding on to. Cheers Vineeto
KUBA: So I was speaking with Sonya last night about my reluctance to abandon ‘humanity’. Initially it seemed like a selfish thing to do, to allow oneself utter freedom whilst ‘others’ are ‘back there’ suffering. This created the impression that the caring thing was to remain and to continue offering help from within ‘humanity’. VINEETO: Hi Kuba, Ha, feeling being ‘Vineeto’ had similar deliberations –
KUBA: But it very quickly became clear to us that no actual benefit would happen as the result of ‘me’ remaining. Even helping others whilst remaining an identity is only made trickier, not only because it can be emotionally turbulent but also because it is experienced as ‘dirty’ by the others. Offering help whilst outside of the human condition is completely free from any pathos and so not only is it more effective but it comes without all the ‘dirt’. Sonya mentioned that in fact it is the other way around, that ‘I’ remain to help from the ‘inside’ only to assuage ‘my’ own feelings. All those feelings of guilt are designed to get ‘me’ right back into the herd where ‘I’ belong. VINEETO: Exactly. Once you recognize the pattern it is easier to decline sooner rather than later. There is no other reason than the instinctual passion to remain within the herd “where ‘I’ belong”. The feelings of guilt are only one of the possibly many tricks of ‘me’ to achieve this objective. KUBA: Indeed it is as if ‘I’ am a cattle, where ‘I’ cannot find any action within ‘myself’ that would exist completely outside of the ‘herd’. ‘I’ and the ‘herd’ are inextricably linked. It’s interesting because I have abandoned ‘humanity’ to the extent that I have virtually eliminated the social identity. But there is a much more fundamental aspect of what it means to be ‘one of many’. It goes deeper than just the beliefs and values that were taught to ‘me’ by society. [emphasis added]. VINEETO: Even though you may or may not be correct when you say “I have virtually eliminated the social identity”, you are certainly correct in your observation that “‘I’ and the ‘herd’ are inextricably linked”, because belonging to humanity is an instinctual passion, and as such “it is impossible to separate the whirlpool or the eddy (the vortex) from the swirling stuff which is the cause of it”.
This also answers Andrew’s hypothetical musings KUBA: Which means that it has to be the solid experience of the actuality of others which
offers that something outside of ‘humanity’, a motivation that allows ‘me’ to do something different than
simply circling back to the herd. VINEETO: Yes, though I would call it ‘experiencing the other as a person in their own right’, because “the solid experience of the actuality of others” requires an ongoing PCE. The very fact that feeling beings bemoan the dearth of actually free people indicates that ultimately nothing less will do in regards the actual caring they are looking for. Cheers Vineeto
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